With the quality of Portuguese football being severely questioned in the wake of Sporting’s 12-1 aggregate defeat to Bayern Munich in the Champions League, we spend the first part of this week’s podcast asking how it was all possible and who was to blame. We bring you up to date on the reactions in the press and of sportinguistas, some of whom were incensed enough to send a death threat to certain people at the club. But it wasn’t all doom and gloom; both Braga and Porto demonstrated that Portuguese domestic football is alive and well, with Porto going through to the quarter-finals of the Champions League and Braga earning a well-deserved draw away in the first leg of their UEFA Cup last 16 tie against PSG.
In part two we focus on the Liga. Benfica’s first home defeat of the season, at the hands of Vitória de Guimarães, has more or less handed the title to Porto. Sporting are now a point ahead of Benfica but 4 points behind Porto and statistics suggest that they’ll have to make history to catch up with the Dragões. Braga drop not only points but their faith in facsimile communication and life in next season’s Liga Vitalis is increasingly becoming a possibility for Trofense and Belenenses. On top of all this, we tell you about Portugal’s B-Team, predict the winner of next weekend’s Carlsberg Cup and discuss whether Quique Flores likes to get lost on his way to Benfica’s training ground.
Keep the comments coming. We’ll be with you again next week.
Thanks for listening,
Steve and Phil
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Hey guys another great podcast as ever, i totally agree with you guys where if a Portuguese team is playing in Europe u will support them, i do that’s for sure and I’m a portista, i would like to see more Portuguese team go through as our ranking has dropped from 9th to 10th, getting passed by Ukraine who have 3 teams remaining in the Uefa cup and they only had 4 teams qualify for Europe as for Portugal’s 7 teams, its a bit disappointing there are only Braga and Porto flying the flag for Portugal as it doesn’t reflect on how good Portuguese football really is. Its a shame that sporting lost the way they did, it really hurts the Liga Sagres and makes it seem like its some 3rd divsion league.
Congratulations to Braga and Porto for going onto the next phase. Good luck to them this week at home to PSG, were unlucky not to go away from Paris with a goal, but I’m sure they can pull it off, with their qualify side. good luck to Porto who ever they get, i wouldn’t mind Bayern Munich to resurrect Portuguese football and show the world that’s sporting defeat doesn’t reflect the Portuguese league, and also Arsenal as you guys mentioned because at the start of the season Porto weren’t at their best switching around players to find the best formula.
Good luck to Sporting this weekend, i think they have played better football this season and deserve to show something from it.
Take Care Steve and Phil
Carlos
Quique Sanchez Flores is from Madrid, I think, rather than Seville … *Checks Wikipedia* … He would still have a reasonable cache over here in Spain, though, so someone should be able to take him off SLB’s hands at the end of the year …
Lodz, I’d read in the Portuguese press that he was from a famous Sevillian family and his aunt was one of Spain’s most well-loved flamenco singers and this was why the Seville job was so appealing to both them and him.
Carlos, I agree with all the points you make, especally the idea that Sporting’s defeat makes the Liga look like a 3rd division league. I really hope Braga and Porto progress to their respective finals because of this, I think Portuguese league football on the whole has strength in depth (maybe only Germany and Italy currently have leagues where the quality of the teams is more evenly spread).
I mean what I said in the podcast about Sporting this weekend, I hope the win the Cup, it’s a meaningless trophy and they are the better of the two sides. I’d really hate to see Quique using it as an excuse to validate his time at Benfica.
Steve, even with you being a Benfica supporter I just can’t understand why you wouldn’t your team to win! Unless it’s the reverse prediction you mentioned at the beginning of this week’s podcast.
There have been times in the past when I wished some Porto teams had lost a few games to get rid of the manager. I was wrong and in the deepest of my heart I always wanted them to win anyway because managers go but the club stays.
I don’t think Quique is as bad as you think. I just think the Spanish coach/manager psyque is totally different to the Portuguese. Portuguese is much more akin to Italian in the way that what matters is not to lose, whatever the cost. Also if you lose you blame the refs, the pitch, the mid-week games, etc.
Spanish football has a much more gentlemanly approach, valuing style as well as results.
Anyway, as a Tripeiro I sincerely hope Benfica change manager – again – so they need to start from scratch again.
“Spanish football has a much more gentlemanly approach, valuing style as well as results.”
Unfortunately for benifiquistas, Hugo, the only thing they’ve had this season is the “gentlemanly” part. I continue to like Quique’s off-field attitude, but on the evidence before our eyes, he’s a terrible coach, and if I were a benfiquista, I would be terribly frustrated.
As we said on the podcast, I think Benfica should take a chance with a Portuguese coach next … but knowing the club as it is now, it won’t happen, I don’t think.
Cheers
Phil
Sure Phil, I agree with you. Porto realised that foreign managers that can come in and command the team instantly are very hard to come by these days. The disasters with Del Neri and Victor Fernandez should have make them think twice before getting a non-portuguese manager, and I think the reason they took the risk again with Adriaanse was because then there wasn’t anyone with strong enough credentials in the Portuguese coaching/managerial field to take up the reigns of the team
I expect that, if Jesualdo goes at the end of the season, Jorge Jesus or Carlos Azenha (previouly the second team coach, after Jesualdo) take over. There is also talk of José Mota, Carlos Carvalhal and Carlos Queiroz, but I’m sure these are just baseless rumours.
As for Benfica, I think they need to walk the walk rather than just talk the talk. If LF Vieira says the setup is to maintain as what is needed is stability, then they should stick with Quique Flores for another couple of years. Otherwise just get rid of him straight away, and get someone with enough clout to grab the team and start right now preparing the next 3 to 5 seasons, (and both club and coach commit to the long-term).
Of the 3 “Grandes”, maybe Sporting will be the club that requires a bigger overhaul of the coaching/managing dept. I reckon they would be the ideal club where to implement the British type of team management where the coach basically heads the football dept. and get a Manuel José or Carlos Queiroz type of figure to organise what is in fact one big “saco-de-gatos” (bag-of-cats) where everybody seems to have a say over team matters and nobody seems to agree on anything, bringing about this mire of internal conflict and turmoil, and bringing it up in the media first.
Benfica missed the bus last year when they had the opportunity to contract any one of numerous up and coming Portuguese managers. It was obvious to anybody except those in power at the Luz that Jorge Jesus had not only the ability but the desire to take the job. I think it’s now highly likely he’ll be Porto’s next manager and who knows the level of success he could attain at a club with the financial stability that Porto have. As it stands now, I’d be over the moon if he could be persuaded to come to Benfica, failing that, Manuel Cajuda would do (José Motá would be great but that’s never going to happen).
Overall, get Quique out at the end of the season, a victory at the weekend will just paper over the huge cracks that have been evident since the defeat to Galatasary in the UEFA Cup.
I agree with your observation about Sporting, maybe José Peseiro could be tempted back in as director of football. I rated him but he obviously had problems with discipline.
On the subject of up and coming managers, we’ve talked before about Jorge Costa but what about Lázaro Oliveira? Estrela are playing fantastic football, safely in mid-table and in the semis of the Taça. He’s got to be doing something right.
It breaks my heart but as a Benfiquista I too have to admit that Quique is not cutting it at my club … I am all for stability and I agree that for the sake of ” Stability ” keeping him for at least another year might be a good thing… But on the other hand would it really ?
I don’t think I could stand another year Quique not seeing the same thing everyone else sees unless he is a genious and we are all not seeing the bigger picture like for example :
* Why does D.Luiz play as an improvized left back defender when J.Ribeiro is clearly a better option ?
* Why does he play Aimar behind the striker when he cleary isn’t a striker ? He is not cut out to be playing that position and rarely produces there. He should be in the nucleus of the midfield spraying passes which is what he was brought in to do …
* What is the point of playing 2 midfielders like Yebda & Katsouranis together when they are carbon copies of each other ? wouldn’t a midfield pairing of Aimar & Katsouranis/Yebda be more intelligent ? Therefore playing with 2 real strikers …
I could go on with several other examples but the fact of the matter is that he seems to manage with a mindset that it is not important to win right now as long as we are going in the right direction ( whichever direction that might be only he seems to know ! ) I got news for Quickie ! At Benfica there is only one possible direction and the Osasuna he finds it the better … Or he will suffer the same fate as his predecessors. ( sorry for the pun ).
I really miss Trappatoni … It wasn’t always pretty but damn ! it was stable… Talk about making an omlet without any eggs !!!
Keep up the good work !
Rob
Hi Rob, I guess you could sum up your post with the question, “Why does he play Aimar at all?” I mentioned it in the podcast but my greatest problem with Quique is his lack of tactical manoeuvrability, he is not willing to adapt to the faults that are so obvious to everyone. At first I thought this was pigheadedness on his part, now I just think he’s lazy and doesn’t have enough technical nous to cut it in football management.
He came with the aim of building a team around Aimar, it was obvious from pre-season he wasn’t fit or strong enough to play yet he persisted. Granted there has been the odd 20 minute spell where glimpses of the player touted as Maradona’s successor could be vaguely imagined but other than that, he’s been an awful failure. Di Maria was fantastic in the role of central playmaker, however Quique wouldn’t know this and I think there’s also the fact that Aimar was also Rui Costa’s big signing, so he didn’t want to lose face having the guy sitting on the bench.
Then you’ve got Suazo, who Quique saw as the solution and decided to play in a style where long balls would be fed for him to chase. Unimaginative tactics that would allow the use of two defensive midfielders who bypass any imagination in the centre of the park, with the idea that Aimar would sweep up the balls Suazo lost. The problem was Suazo, who again wasn’t fit and whilst being a good player was nowhere near as good as the hype suggested. However, Quique refused to acknowledge this because to change systems would probably too much hard work for him on the training ground (or he just doesn’t know a system to change to), so what you had is an utterly unfit player having t run around chasing long balls. Madness.
This then has a knock on effect with Nuno Gomes and Oscar Cardozo, both good strikers contracted to the club rather than being on loan. Unfortunately long ball tactics don’t suit them so they’re left to rot on the bench even though they both score far more goals than Suazo could manage.
Next, Rubin Amorim, who has been without a doubt the one bright light at the end of yet another long dark tunnel. Even stuck out on the right, he’s been fantastic but the occasional times he’s been given the chance to play in the centre of the park he has been out of this world and Benfica have looked a team, he provides a ling betweek Katso and Aimar and the only times I’ve seen Aimar play well for prolonged periods of time is when Rubin is in the centre. Yet Quique doesn’t see this because he tactically can’t cater for the best player at the club.
Finally, the right back situation. Rui Costa worked hard to secure another season for Léo at Benfica, he was without a doubt the best player at the club last season. But Quique comes in, insults him by saying he needs to improve some aspects of his game and he buggers off to Brazil (I don’t doubt the stuff about his father’s illness but I reckon his visits home would’ve been more sporadic if his circumstances at Benfica were more favourable). In Léo’s place we’ve got a player I like a lot but nobody is really sure whether his position is in defence or midfield, then you’ve got David Luis who blows either midly warm or sub zero.
Like you say Rob, the guy doesn’t cut it and the sooner he’s out and a good Portuguese manager is in, the better.
As an added note, it’s a pity about Braga last night but they were fairly beaten by a better side in my opinion.
Porto to play Man Utd.
Could it be worse? I guess Liverpool and Chelsea would be harder opponents. Glad they were pitted against each other.
Manchester will be all about attack as they certainly don’t rate Porto very much. Which means we will be able to hurt them on the counter-attack. I hope with all my fingers and toes crossed!
Hmmm … you have to wonder who’ll look after Cristiano Ronaldo – Porto have had a problem at right back all season, and he often goes down that side.
I wonder if Manchester United, and Ferguson, will be a bit queasy about meeting the club that did for them in 2004?
Phil
I’ve been impressed with Sapunaru in the last couple of games and I’m starting to believe he might be coming good at last. How he’ll do against Ronaldo is another question but I think the draw favours Porto and we’ve seen in the past that the a hostile Portuguese home crowd can get the better of him.
Overall, I’m really happy with the draw because it’s sure to be a good game. I really hope Carlos Queroz has a certain amount of national pride and doesn’t give too many secrets away to Ferguson, however I believe he will be well prepared and probably has an eye on Hulk as a possible future signing.
it could have been worse for porto, they are on the better half of the draw, to play either arsenal or Villarreal if they do win, they way porto are playing i do believe they can go through, also playing the 25nd leg at home will be an advantage.
Good luck to porto
Força Porto
Referring back to patriotic support of Portuguese clubs, would there be an an equivalent regionalism in Portugal of what happens in Spain with the northern Spanish clubs or Barca, or even England with Man United fans singing anti English songs or Liverpool saying we’re not English we are Scouse. Say would people from Porto feel any less patriotic about Portugal than Lisbonites. I remember the story about Pinto De Costa celebrating when Greece beat Portugal, but if true was that more down to personal dislike of Scolari.
I reckon the biggest rivalry is between Porto in the North and Lisbon in the South, particularly between the clubs Porto and Benfica. However, the Rivalry between Sporting and Benfica is also legendary.
A bit like what is happening now at Liverpool with both Everton and Liverpool refusing to ground-share, in Lisbon, before the Euro2004 both Benfica and Sporting rejected the possibility of sharing one stadium.
Pinto da Costa used, in the past, regional politics – the Northern regions of Portugal are among the most deprived in Europe and the Portuguese government keeps investing in the “Greater-Lisbon” – as a banner with which to motivate Porto supporters to manifest against Lisbon – clubs and especially government – when the old Antas Stadium was subject to liquidation by the finance minister.
Unfortunately, in Portugal (as in Spain and Italy) too much Air time is given to club Presidents and Directors, who use football for personal or political gain.
I which this can be reversed in the near future with the Golden Generation footballers – like Vitor Baía, Rui Costa or Luis Figo assuming positions of power in their respective clubs or even the Portuguese FA (FPF).
I find that there is usually a well crafted balance of players either playing for the big 3 or associated to them in every national team selection. Care is always taken at home games to play players who play for the team whose ground the national team are playing at. So, you can be guaranteed Raul Mirelles, Bruno Alves and maybe even Rolando will start against Sweden. Of course Scolari in his time as manager had a weird thing against Porto and many Portistas felt ostracized from the selection but on the whole there are, to my knowledge, no situations like that in the UK or Spain where the national team is seen as an annoyance, the Portuguese are extremely patriotic and on the whole it is healthy patriotism.
Highly watchable Taça final tonight with one of the most shocking penalty decisions I’ve seen in a long long time. I think Pedro Silva did well with only barging the referee, I think I personally would have slapped him one, not only was it not a handball but if it was, it was a yard or two outside the area.
However, if karma exists, Pedro Silvas red card could only be seen as retribution for the amount of stomach turning fouls Derlei committed during the game. What in god’s name is wrong with the guy, he can play some nice football when he can be bothered but tonight he did nothing but push, punch and kick everything in sight
I agree, Steve: Derlei’s head goes much too often and detracts from his usefulness as a player. Having said that, the most “stomach-turning” foul of the game was Reyes’ studs-up challenge on Derlei’s knee [edit: sorry - it was Rochemback's knee] which should have earned him a red card. Naturally, the referee only gave him a yellow.
Interesting game and interesting aftermath, which will give us a lot to talk about tomorrow.
Phil
As a sportinguista, I tend to think that too much attention is given by Paulo Bento to refereeing decisions . Consequently, when an awful decision such as Sr. Batista’s occurs, he ends up sounding like the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
In non-derby/classico games, refereeing decisions normally should not have the possibility to determine the outcome of a game. The grandes should only blame themselves when they cannot handle a lower echelon team with enough margin to negate a poor decision, though the gap between the “grandes” and “pequenos” has been closing. However, in a derby/classico, where the teams play at such a high intensity (or, brutality), you are more likely to have one or two situations upon which a result pivots and a bad decision can affect the outcome, as was seen on Saturday.
I’m not sure what the solution is to the never-ending refereeing saga in Portugal (Apito Dourado certainly didn’t provide the fruits that I had hoped for), but I think greater accountability is needed. (So that we can focus on the other guys on the pitch!)