Another podcast from Steve and Phil, those English senhores of Portuguese football knowledge and opinion.
It’s back to the traditional three parts this week as we let you know about this weekend’s round of games. In Part 1 we focus on the contrasting fortunes of Porto and Sporting; the former are looking very ordinary as they drop points at home to Paços de Ferreira, while the latter look red hot as the rejuvenated Lisbon team beat Nacional 3-2 thanks to 2 excellent Liedson goals.
In part 2 we focus on a familiar old topic, dodgy refereeing. Benfica definitely benefitted from some outrageous refereeing decisions as they smashed Marítimo 0-5 in Madeira. Braga were also fortunate to get a dubious penalty as they broke André Villas Boas’ impressive 100% home record in charge of Académica to come away with a 0-2 victory.
Finally, in part 3 we focus on the other games we failed to cover in the earlier parts. Setúbal are impressing Steve without actually winning games, Castro might be Olhanense’s answer to Steven Gerrard, Belenenses are awful again and Rio Ave really missed Fábio Farias and the player André Vilas (with one ‘l’) Boas as Ronny-tastic Leiria beat them 0-2.
Please do leave us some comments and let us know you’re out there and listening. It was very sad for us to have nobody to talk to but ourselves this weekend!
Thanks for listening,
Steve and Phil
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Ola Boys
Interesting podcast this week – especially the reversal of fortunes at Sporting and Porto that highlight just how capricious the nature of football is. It was only a few months ago in a pod cast that you were sounding the death knell for Sporting and lamenting Porto’s dominance – how times have changed. A new manager and a fresh injection of cash has seemed to work wonders at the Alvalade – and in contrast Porto are struggling. (I mentioned a few months ago that Belluschi was not an adequate replacement for Lucho and that has been a major problem)
I don’t think that a club can operate a revolving door policy and maintain a level of success indefinetly and Porto seem to be paying for their inability to replace their most influencial players.
I don’t understand how Sporting can splash the cash now – it was only a few months ago they recorded debts of two hundred million Euros, where’s the money come from?
Also interested to hear about Steve’s culinary adventures with Arroz do Polvo – one of my Avo’s favourites – if you like seafood the next time your in Olhao catching a game, take a trip to Tavira – there is a restaurant along the river front near the market that serves the best tuna steak, called A Barquinha.
We’re still listening!
Phew! Thanks Jeremy!
Steve suggested a couple of podcasts back that Sporting must have had dispensation from the bank to splash a bit of cash, and that must be the case, I think – as you say, on paper they’re up to their proverbials in debt.
And I agree also about the “revolving door” policy at Porto (well put!). It’s often worked in the past – the club has sold players for a cartload of dosh and replaced them adequately with much cheaper ones. But this time it just hasn’t worked.
Let’s see what Ruben Micael can do to stick some dynamite under that midfield.
I didn’t listen to the last few podcasts, but I must say that I am shocked with this week’s comments!
It’s a known fact that Mr. Pinto da Costa bribes referees, judges, journalists, etc, but I would never imagine that he could bribe the footballportugal Podcast as well. And to make matters worse, you are being paid in arroz de polvo!
I could understand if it was bacalhau à braz, or frango assado no churrasco, but arroz de polvo?!
“In part 2 we focus on a familiar old topic, dodgy refereeing. Benfica definitely befitted from some outrageous refereeing decisions”
When I read this I was like “what the hell…did I type http://www.fcporto.pt by mistake? Argh! I must run my anti-virus as quickly as possible!”
Then I started to listen to the podcast, and those scandalous refereeing decisions finally became clear; one was the Olberdan red card, and the other one was Benfica’s third goal.
— Olberdan red card —-
Laws of the Game, Law 12, Fouls and Misconduct:
“A player, substitute or substituted player is dismissed from the field of play and shown the red card if he commits any of the following offences:
- …
- Use of abusive language and/or gestures”
So the law says that a player must be sent off for use of abusive language, and Olberdan was sent off for… use of abusive language. Yes, I can see that this has all the ingredients of an outrageous refereeing decision.
And then you say “ah, but this has never happened before”. Really? I have seen it dozens of times, remember the first game of the season, Paços de Ferreira – Porto? Hulk got a straight red for dissent. A few weeks ago I was watching a game from the Italian league, Bologna – Inter, and I remember that Maicon was sent off for insulting the assistant-referee. So I searched youtube and here’s the video (2:55)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT7NWpYc8Vg
And this was just a game that I happened to watch, I wonder what happens in the hundreds of games every week that I don’t watch, I usually only watch Benfica and occasionally the other grandes. Red cards for dissent are a lot more common than you think, I have seen a few Benfica players getting straight reds as well. Just because most referees are cowards and prefer to ignore the insults, it doesn’t qualify as a dodgy decision when a referee does apply the law.
— Benfica’s third goal —-
“The referee let Di Maria get back onto the pitch right next to Briguel”, yes, BUT (and this is a huuuuuge but, bigger than Jennifer Lopez’s…), when the referee let Di Maria back onto the pitch the ball was NOT close to Briguel, it was in fact in the middle of the pitch, a good 30 meters away from both Briguel and Di Maria. Check this video (1:22)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaxTW5tcwc8
They say a picture is worth a 1000 words, so here it is:
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1162/dimaria.jpg
So, unless you believe that the referee had a crystal ball and knew exactly what the Maritimo players were going to do in future (the guy with the ball could simply pass it to the player just a couple of meters in front of him, for example, instead of passing the ball to Briguel), how can you say that letting Di Maria onto the pitch was an outrageous decision? The truth is that you can’t, the referee got all decisions absolutely spot on and Benfica did not get any favours from him. If you want to be nitpicky you could even say that we were robbed because Aimar was fouled inside the penalty area.
If these decisions are outrageous, I imagine what you would say if you saw a ball-boy scoring a goal, and the referee having no hesitation in considering it absolutely legal, 1-0 to the home team! I don’t even need to say the name of the club that “scored” that goal, right? It’s the sort of surreal events that can only happen in a single place, a place where the Laws of the Game don’t apply, football’s very own Area 51. That’s what tea and cookies at Pinto da Costa’s home do to referees, it makes them lose their ability to apply the law. Must be indigestion…
hi guys,
discovered your podcast/website a couple of months ago…
i’ve always been a real fan of portugal (the country as well as the football) and i’ve always thought that the football doesn’t get the credit it deserves here in the uk, there’s something really quirky and enjoyable about it- like the country itself.
i especially enjoy the games not involving the big 3- there’s something really cool in those fans going against the grain, and sitting in empty stadiums- it makes a really great visual for some reason.
so keep up the good work, you’re the best source of liga debate on the web, and i really appreciate it. if that doesn’t cheer you up, nothing will.
Thanks Ben,I really appreciate your kind words.
As for Nuno…
João Ferreira had a nightmare in that game, rules or no rules, the sending off of Oberdam was a personal vendetta and an example of extremely poor refereeing. The Maicon incident is different, it happens almost at the end of the game and it’s almost as if Maicon wants to be sent off. The Oberdam incident was just weird, there was no sign of a warning to the player to calm down, not repeat what he said, just a straight red. Compare Oberdam’s reactions to the bullying of referee’s by Roy Keane or Michael Ballack, there’s just no justice in the referee’s decision. He spoilt the game as a spectacle and in my opinion this walk in the park will be detrimental to Benfica’s progress, they need to be playing difficult opponents week in week out if they’re going to conquer Portugal and Europe this season.
Good observations regarding Di Maria, I think we can view that as an unfortunate incident but one which a better referee would have avoided.
Finally, in response to Jeremy, it’s more than likey I’ll be having my “ferias” in Tavira this summer, so will defintiely try to check out A Barquinha!
I can only support Steve in his defence of our views on that Benfica game. As you admit, Nuno, “most referees are cowards and prefer to ignore the insults” … so why suddenly does this referee, and conicidentally in a Benfica game, come over all outraged? If you watch the telly closely, you’ll see players mouthing “f*lho da puta” at the referee all the time, and nothing happens (Luisão is a major culprit of this, for example). Let’s just see if João Ferreira is as brave in the next match he refs … but then he won’t have to be because it won’t be Benfica playing, and it’ll be like water off a duck’s back …
But thanks for the feisty post, anyway! We’re not portistas, but I must admit to being a little anti-Benfica at times. I can really appreciate the good football they’re playing this year, but all the bleating behind the scenes, and benfiquistas’ superiority complex, really gets to me.
And thanks, Ben, also. Yes, you’re right – there is a certain charm at seeing games in half-empty stadiums … but seeing Rio Ave’s stadium full for the recent visit of Benfica, for example, was much more thrilling. So I’d personally prefer it if it was like that more often. Apart from anything, the game as we know it here will peter out if the majority of clubs don’t get their cash flow sorted out.
Regarding empty stadiums, I still find it incredible that the two upper tiers in Braga’s stadium are completely empty for almost every game. What would happen if they won the league this year, would the fickle Portuguese public suddenly become Arsenalistas? I suppose those missing in action Porto supporters have got to find something to do with their time.
I’m having a hard time understanding your logic guys…
Steve, rules or no rules? Rules exist to be applied, whether you agree with them or not, otherwise you would have absolute chaos. If the police stops you for speeding try telling them “law or no law, what you are doing is a personal vendetta”. Or if you forget to pay your taxes you can tell them “tax or no tax etc, etc”. You are basically advocating that there are occasions when the referee should NOT follow the Laws of the Game, could you please give me a list of when that behaviour is acceptable and even expectable? The law is clear, the referee applied the law, you don’t say it’s dubious (like the Braga penalty), you say it’s… outrageous! I really don’t get it…
And Phil, “As you admit, Nuno, ‘most referees are cowards and prefer to ignore the insults’ … so why suddenly does this referee, and coincidentally in a Benfica game, come over all outraged?”
So just because most referees don’t apply the law, João Ferreira should be criticized for doing the right thing? Are we so used to seeing incompetent people refereeing football matches that we now expect all referees to be incompetent as well, and if they are not then they should be criticized? João Ferreira is not “most referees”, he can only be accountable for his own actions. If the other referees ignore the insults that’s their problem, he simply followed the rules.
Also, the comments mentioned outrageous refereeing decisionS, lots and lots of them apparently, not just 1 decision. And yet we only discuss the red card, where are the other outrageous decisions?
I don’t expect the podcast to be pro-Benfica, or even neutral to be honest, but when a player getting a red card for being punched twice (Cardozo, Braga-Benfica) and then getting a two-match ban is not even worthy of mention, probably because it’s not outrageous enough, and then you imply that Benfica are winning games because the referees are not impartial, I have to defend the good name of my club.
Nuno, full marks to you for trying to defend your club.
In an earlier post, you said:
“It’s a known fact that Mr. Pinto da Costa bribes referees, judges, journalists, etc,”
I have to say that we at footballportugalpodcast cannot side with you in that potentially libellous claim. What IS a known fact is that Benfica’s president Luís Filipe Vieira said a couple of seasons ago something along the lines of “It doesn’t matter if our players are no good if we have people in high places in the Liga.”
Cardozo’s suspension for the Braga game was almost instantaneous. Hulk has been “provisionally suspended” now for a month, with no end in sight. “People in high places”?
As for João Ferreira .. as I tried to say earlier, the red card v. Marítimo will be fair enough if that same referee has exactly the same reaction to the next bit of foul language he hears. He won’t, I’ll bet you.
The fact is that referees in the world rarely act on Law 12, certainly not showing a direct red – if they did, there’d be no players left on the pitch in any game. So it’s become pretty much acceptable that players, in the heat of the moment, will swear.
So when the odd referee (João Ferreira) acts as he did, he becomes the exception to the rule. The fact that it happened to benefit Benfica I think is a big coincidence.
Your final point:
“…and then you imply that Benfica are winning games because the referees are not impartial”. It was the Liga’s head of refereeing, Vítor Pereira, who suggested that referees are not always being impartial. He might have been referring to the scandalous decisions and non-decisions of Olegário Benquerença in the Benfica v Nacional Taça da Liga game on 3 January. If you’ve seen the video of Luisão kicking Salino when he’s on the ground, and doing it with impunity, you’ll know what I mean.
Phil, I don’t think you understood LFV’s comments… he never said “It doesn’t matter if ***OUR*** players are no good if ***WE*** have people in high places in the Liga.”, he said “it is more important to have people in high places in the Liga than to buy good players.” Sounds similar but it is not, he was basically saying that even if Benfica had the best players in the world it would not be possible to win the title because another club controlled the Liga.
All player’s suspensions are instantaneous, unless they are accused of serious misconduct and face a potential 6-month ban (I think it’s 6 months, but I could be wrong). When that happens the player is provisionally suspended for further investigations. It’s the law… I don’t know if you remember this or not, but many years ago Sá Pinto punched and kicked Artur Jorge (coach of the national team then), he was immediately suspended and ended up getting a 9-month ban a few weeks/months later. So Hulk must have done something serious.
Anyway, I get it now. Benfica bribes referees, all referees benefit Benfica, Cardozo should have been banned for life, Hulk did nothing wrong, Benfica have people in high places in the Liga, LFV is corrupt, Pinto da Costa is a saint.
Not one word about the way Porto avoided being relegated because of the golden whistle investigation, or how they avoided being throw out of the Champions League (when even Platini called them “cheats), or even a possible explanation as to why even though Benfica gets all the favours from referees we have only won 1 title in the last 15 years… Those people in high places must be crazy, they work for Benfica but for some reason they always bend all the rules to help another club.
All this discussion just because a referee followed the rules, this is portuguese football and anti-Benfica fundamentalism at its best. By the way, that new sport they play in Porto (Basketball? No, handball, right?) is amazing, isn’t it? I wonder if referee applied the Laws of the Game there…
If you want to be entertained I highly recommend you to listen to the tapes from the golden whistle case. It’s better than the 9 o’clock “novela”. It might change your view of portuguese football a little bit though.
“He might have been referring to the scandalous decisions and non-decisions of Olegário Benquerença in the Benfica v Nacional Taça da Liga game on 3 January.”
Yes, Olegário Benquerença, that known benfiquista, he always helps us.
The following image is from the 04/05 season (our last title) Benfica – Porto, Olegário Benquerença was the referee. Question, is this a valid goal? The referee said no, what is your opinion? Does this qualify as a scandalous decision?
http://web.tagus.ist.utl.pt/~bruno.capelo/golo/001.jpg
indeed, fuller stadiums are better. i’m watching belenenses-porto right now, and it’s a little fuller than normal, but only a little.
steve, did you go in the end? how was it? belenenses are defending pretty well, 70 minutes in…
lovely goal…you wait months for a goal at home, then 2 come along at once..
Yes, good goals, Ben. And a thrilling (if not always well played) tie. With 30 (!!) penalties to decide it!
That’s cup football at its best, actually. That Lima … what a player!
Sorry, Nuno … I have to take you up on your points (not wishing to turn this into a tennis match, you understand).
“He [Luís Filipe Vieira] was basically saying that even if Benfica had the best players in the world it would not be possible to win the title because another club controlled the Liga.”
That’s your interpretation of a cryptic quote … many comentators here interpreted it differently. (And I understood his comments fine, thanks.)
Yes, a player’s suspension can be instantaneous, but the Liga is currently dragging its heels really badly to come up with a definitive suspension for Hulk (and Sapunaru). The season will be over before they come to a decision about the Luz tunnel incident.
“(when even Platini called them “cheats)”.
I’m sorry, mentioning Platini’s name really doesn’t support any arguments at all. Who is Platini as an administrative figure? – I mean, what credibility can he possibly have in respect of the Portuguese game? (Did he condemn Henry’s handball(s), incidentally?)
“[Not] even a possible explanation as to why even though Benfica gets all the favours from referees we have only won 1 title in the last 15 years.”
Well … Benfica have been utter cr*p for the last 15 years. I’ve been here. I’ve seen them. And even rabid benfiquistas here will tell you the same. They’ve managed somehow always to finish in the top three … or four … who knows how …
What we’re talking about here is Vítor Pereira’s “lack of impartiality” (by implication in favour of the ‘BIG’ clubs). There was some in Madeira at the weekend. That time it favoured Benfica to give them a trampoline in the game. Tonight (Wednesday) it favoured FC Porto at Belenenses: both Bruno Alves and Raul Meireles should have seen at least a yellow for fouls (Meireles’ studs-up challenge on Celestino actually deserved a different colour, with Olegário (you see, I’m not saying he’s a benfiquista, but a poor referee, influenced by a BIG BADGE) just two metres away).
Anyway, I don’t suppose we’ll ever agree, Nuno … pax?
Phil
Nuno said,
“I don’t know if you remember this or not, but many years ago Sá Pinto punched and kicked Artur Jorge (coach of the national team then”
You can’t teach an old dog new tricks! Sá Pinto resigns as Sporting’s director of football after allegedly beating the crap our of Liedson in the dressing room. I’ve heard some great Sá Pinto stories at work this morning which I shall share on the next podcast…
Incredible night of football yesterday, I didn’t go to the game and thank god, I’d have never been able to wake up for work this morning if I had. All three televised games were incredible, I was forever flicking between the three of them.
I wonder who is going to buy this guy Zhang from Mafra?
I only watched the Belenenses v Porto game because my cable was out. Thirty penalties!? Must be some kind of record, at least in Portugal.
sa pinto…what a guy. at least the club were sensible enough to choose liedson over him. apparently he was having a go at rui patricio as well?
I think he was just voicing what all sportinguistas must have been feeling about that goal against Mafra, i.e.: “You prat, Patrício!”
But I suppose, as Director of Football, he should have been a little more diplomatic than apparently he was.
Steve and Phil,
Excellent podcast. I look forward to hearing you each week and more importantly listening to an unbiased analysis of portuguese soccer. Listening to the local portuguese radio here in Rhode Island, USA is like hearing the Benfica front office. Being a porto fan it makes it quite hard. Oh and I definitely stand behind your comments on referees this week. Portuguese refs as a whole are absolutely embarrasing and I hope one day they can learn from the refs in the UK. Now that’s quality refereeing which leads to quality soccer.
Take care,
Brian
Rhode Island, USA
Another great podcast, fellas.
There are listeners out here! I may not be as prolific a commentator as Nuno (try the descafeinado), but I never miss a podcast.
Can’t say I’m surprised about Sa Pinto. The reason we sportinguistas all love him is the same reason why he was not well-suited for the role of Director. At least not that of a club that he is emotionally tied to.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks, Sérgio! Always good to hear from our listeners … but don’t be backward in coming forward. Whenever you have an opinion, just post it up! Nuno’s already on the de-caff – must be something else …
Yesterday, Sá Pinto made a statement … saying it was all Liedson’s fault. Diplomatic to the end.
Phil
good for sa pinto, football needs nutters like him.
nice article on wsc today phil, you do wonder why a man at a club with the supremacy of porto felt the need…
Thanks, Ben!
After I’d written it, it occurred to me that I’d missed something out … which is the feeling you get from those taps that all the skullduggery was completely routine, and therefore what was caught by the police and published last week must have been the tiny tip of a very big iceberg, most likely involving lots more clubs than just Porto (and Boavista).
There was actually the transcript of a tap published a year or so ago in which Benfica president Luís Filipe Vieira arranges (with [edit] the president of the FPF Refereeing Council) to choose a referee for a Benfica Cup game (mentioned by Miguel Sousa Tavares in his column in A Bola today). It was swept under the carpet.
Phil
things like that are a big reason why i hope braga can take the title this year. it’d be a symbolic victory as well as a simple footballing one.
That anticipated Braga title. will it be as lovely, clean, fresh and invigorating as Boavista’s fantastic triumph a few years back? Sa Pinto was one of only a handful of Portuguese at the marriage of Leitizia and the big tall bloke who will one day be King of Spain. It’s the blue blood in his veins that keeps coming to the boil…
Cheers Brian! It’s pretty much Benfica front office here in Portugal, so you ain’t missing much!
Welcome Lua Azul, my other half is always going on about Sá Pinto’s blue blood, but I’ve done numerous Google searches and I’ve found nothing to verify it. I don’t doubt it, but I’d love to know where he lies in the aristocratic tree.
Is clean an appropriate adjective to describe Boavista’s league title?
“Is clean an appropriate adjective to describe Boavista’s league title?”
Oi! Don’t start!
Phil
Predictions on the match of the week in Braga? (although the one at the Choupana shouldn’t be bad either)
1-1 is my guess.
SCP have got a crazy two weeks of games ahead of them and when you look at all of those games (Braga – league, away, Porto – cup,away, Académica – league, home, Benfica – cup, home), tonight’s game is the only one they can afford to lose. Braga to win 2-0.
i’m going with 1-1. sporting have been much better at the back recently, and braga have a problem with scoring. braga to take an early lead and liedson to grab a late equaliser.
I’m with Steve, even the scoreline. We’re talking about the best defence in the Liga here, and if Liedson has an off night, that’s it.
Dull stuff up until the goal, then Braga have shown they’re more of a team, and Sporting have been insipid and ragged. Lucky deflection goal, but Veloso and Pereira made it a bit easy for Cesar to get the shot in. Sporting shaded it on points until the goal, with Pereira doing all right down the flank and Moutinho busy. But no goal threat, and that’s what counts.
The fact that Braga didn’t have to play well in order to win comfortably says it all … Moutinho was the only class act for Sporting … Hopes died when everyone was looking around for someone to rescue the match, and three lightweight pitty-patty losers like Matias Fernandez, Sinama-Pongolle and Djalo come on. These are not men you’d like to have next to you in the trenches …
I agree with you Lodz. Izmailov wasn’t fit and shouldn’t have played in my opinion and I thought Matias was pretty good when he came on. Pogolle and Djalo however, I still can’t believe Sporting have spent €6m on that guy? The amount of great Portuguese or Brazilian players they could get for that money, you could probably get 12 Limas from Belenenses.
Mossóro my man of the match and slowly but surely becoming my player of the season. He’s skilful, great vision and most of all, he’s a fighter – wonderful player.
But Braga are spectacularly lucky, I’d be interested to discover just how many of their goals are deflected because it seems to be an awful lot from my memory.
Tough one on Friday. I was wrong on that prediction, as well as on the fixture in Madeira…
Now that the Liga is (definitely) out of reach, Sporting can turn its attention to the competition that REALLY matters — the Carlsberg Cup! But before that, they have to fulfill their obligation in the Taca de Portugal (what, no sponsor?)
When’s the next podcast, gents?